Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
29-Apr-09 06:50 PM
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Governments of both parties have through their legisation made final salary pension schemes for employees in the Private Sector sadly almost a thing of the past.Unexceptable costs to the Employers have been the death of these schemes . Yet surprisingly State Funded schemes for Public Sector still pursist and flourish( from High Ranking Civil Servants, MP's and Judges down to lowly paid street cleaners). Is this fair to the hard pressed tax paying British Public ? In a democratic country should we be asked to vote on this issue? Why no start a Yahoo vote on this issue ?
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Rock Bottom
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
29-Apr-09 07:19 PM
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Final salary pensions would be fine if they hadn't voted themselves massive pay rises. The way the salary rises were awarded to doctors was theft from the public purse and the true costs hidden. MPs caught abusing their expenses are going to get a pay rise as a result and the worse of the lot are local government officials who award them selves pay rises by comparing themselves with the private sector. Let them keep the pension, but make them work to 70 and cut salaries
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james S
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
8-May-09 06:46 PM
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Final Salary Pensions are going because those in work are declining due to far more being retired, and far less working. But this is good because its a great way of looking after the elderly. People like Judges need big Pensions, because they do lots of expensive things and the Range Rover or Porsche has to be looked after, not to mention clays for the regular shoots......
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Louis Supers...
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
9-Aug-09 10:07 PM
Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
10-Aug-09 08:13 AM
Because if public sector pensions also go and in this housing bubble economy no one saves then everyone will end up on a public sector pension - a very low state pension. Of course the political pressure will then be on to increase everyone's pension and then taxes will rise.
If private sector pensions could be trusted and our housing policies were sensible then sure everything would be ok, but no one trusts the banks, everyone uses their houses to build capital which is then taken away by the government when you get ill go mad or die. This whole way of living is mad and is in need of some heavy regulation.
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JULIANzzz
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
10-Aug-09 08:51 AM
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The answer to our ills Julianzzz is in your comments for this country......raise taxes......especially for higer earners....50% tax for 50k ......60% tax for 60k ........up to 100% tax for 100k........soon put a stop to the greed...make the UK a fairer place to reside........a bit like Denmark really.......oh and raise the personal allowance level to 10k so that low wage earners pay no tax .....many part time and low level pay here with people on 15k per annum and below....
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JOHN
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
10-Aug-09 08:59 AM
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I am one of the few still on a private final salary pension. I would like it to stay that way but whether it would or not is debateable.
The projections for state employees final salary costs going forward are untenable and unacceptable as they do not provide value for money for the tax payer!.
Therefore something will have to be done about it. It should start with efficiency drives in the public sector to reduce headcount and thus pension commitments followed by a review and changes to the pension provisions.
The simple fact is that ultimately the only way to pay for these commitments is taxation. In the short term it can be financed through borrowing but eventually the borrowing must be paid for.
There is only so much money juice that the government can sqeaze out of the private citizen and business before the whole system collapses.
Remember it is the private the private sector that creates the wealth and it needs to be financially secure for it to keep doing so.
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Sim
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
10-Aug-09 09:55 AM
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I suspect the vast majority of non government and non local government employees agree with you.It is a ridiculously unsustainable and divisive position for the country to be in . We are morally stuck with the bill for their pension accrual to date , but an immediate change to future funding / entitlement is urgently required. It would also help significantly with the country's efforts to reduce its massive debts .However , until MPs lead the way with a significant down grading of their own exceptionally generous scheme --and turkeys do not vote for christmas -- there appears little chance of this happening soon
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W G
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
11-Aug-09 07:10 PM
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Sim
You are spot on, the only issue that I have is that you have used the word “morally” in the same paragraph as “MP’s” and given their morality they will not want to upset the ‘rules’ which must be adhered to regardless.
Nothing will happen as this Country is run by self interested fraudsters; the expenses fiasco has proved this beyond any doubt. Notice how quiet it has become on the expenses fiasco, what chance a fair pension scheme across the board?
These “turkeys” are a protected species not just at Christmas.
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Obi -Wan
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
11-Aug-09 07:37 PM
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The trouble is, it was the private sector (ie the banks) that stuffed us all. Weren't they the ones who were so greedy that they wrecked the economy? Public sector pensions are different to MP pension plans too, the former is self sustaining, ie public sector staff have to pay for their pensions - MPs don't. And any way the average public sector pension payout is only £4k per year. And don't let me rant about "bonuses" now being paid to the "City".
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fredbloggs
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
20-Nov-09 10:00 PM
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Fred,
"Public sector pensions are different to MP pension plans too, the former is self sustaining, ie public sector staff have to pay for their pensions"
Errh, mmh, not quite self sustaining - public sector staff may have to make a contribution to their pension but they don't pay for their pension - it's the taxpayer that pays the greater part of the pension.
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DB64
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
20-Nov-09 10:19 PM
Oh another thing Fred,
Be careful of average pension figures - these are made up from the significant contribution of lots of lowly paid people working for short periods in public sector. What should be compared is two similar workers say earning the same amount, one with 40 years in public sector and another with 40 years in private sector - do you see the inequality there?
PwC did comparison on this sort of basis:
http://www.lgcplus.com/finance-and-partn...
The difference will be worse in the future because so many private sector schemes have been stopped.
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DB64
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
20-Aug-09 04:35 PM
Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
20-Aug-09 05:20 PM
Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
4-Oct-09 12:55 PM
Abolition of public sector final salary inflation linked pensions is essential to the survival of the UK economy.
But both main parties are so deeply entrenched in historic thinking and self-interest - they do not have the forsight nor the wisdom to do the right thing
the result is more businesses moving offshore, less taxation coming in and a downward spiral as tax rates rise on those who are left
so maybe it will be down to the IMF - who already have this within their targets - and the UK of course maybe, by then if it takes months as opposed to weeks, will not even have a seat! - which is Brown's punishment by the USA for allowing terrorist murderers to go free!
Sentiment :
Strong Sell
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Ian
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
29-Oct-09 05:21 PM
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Could not agree more.We are being milked dry by the public sector. One in three people now work for the government and it is not sustainable. Let us pray Cameron will see the light of day and get these parasites off our backs.
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Philip M
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
20-Nov-09 11:35 PM
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Which parasites? Teachers? Nurses? Low paid civil servants administering social security benefits? How are you going to run public services? More costly outsourcing to the private sector perhaps!
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Mark SG
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
21-Nov-09 02:43 AM
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Nobody is disputing that a certain number of people need to work in the Public Sector, yes we need nurses, yes we need doctors, yes we need firemen, yes we need tax collectors, however over the past 12 years the Public Sector disproportionately and is completely out of line with growth in jobs in the Private Sector.
Before the last Government, the argument for generous Public Sector pensions was that Public Sector workers were paid considerably less than equivalent roles in the Private Sector. This is no longer the case after 12 years of Labour's Socialism experiment gone wrong, now pay is on a par and in many cases exceeds equivalent roles in the Private Sector. But the gold plated Public Sector pensions remain which is wholly unfair ,unjust, unsustainable and will be the breaking of Britain if not reviewed.
I personally don't want to work until 70-75 to pay for some Police Officer/Fire Officer who has retired after 30 years service at the age of 50 because of some miscellaneous faked illness.....because this happens, I know examples of this and I'm sure you know of them as well.
If this is not addressed, we will have riots in the streets, Public Sector workers vs Private Sector workers/ Tax Payers of tomorrow.
Prepare for a mighty showdown.
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theAAces
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
21-Nov-09 09:50 PM
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Mark,
"Which parasites?"
That's an easy question. I'll give you my answer via your first example my favourite hobby horse education. Now I've no great problem with hard pressed chalk face teachers, they have a hell of a job and really do need much more of our support. So where can we make savings in education.
Well where I live 25% of schools spending isn't spent in schools it's spent in the off site "head office" where people are paid to administer, monitor, measure, manage and continually reinvent the education mostly along political and 'elf & safety lines. Yes people have to continually reinvent education, come up with new schemes, change the curriculum and disrupt children's education to keep themselves in work. Money is taken from real teachers and given to these self serving idiots.
This is where we should make huge cuts, cut out interference and return education to real educators, let them manage themselves free of bureaucratic meddlers. Let's stop political and 'elf and safety $%^&, it really has gone too far to be taken seriously. Children are now "managed" and supervised where they are not allowed to play games in the playground in case they hurt themselves, no running, no kicking balls, nothing rough ffs. Perhaps a few laws less favourable to the compensation culture might help to make people grow up.
Now let's see, could much of that apply to Health, Social Services etc - I think it can.
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DB64
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
22-Nov-09 10:51 AM
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Money isn't the problem with the public sector. The real problem is the appalling quality of the work that is done by civil servants.
The French public sector is busy flogging trains and nuclear power stations round the world, can you imagine British civil servants ever doing that? No the UK had British Rail and Windscale.
This is not to say there are not many dedicated hard-working civil servants but they work in an environment where sustained high quality work is not possible.
So we have an army that became an international joke because it was so ill-equipped.
A police force that doesn't protect or convict.
Low standards of health care.
An out date expensive law system.
Increasingly corrupt local government.
I could go on…
Sadly, most of those involved seem to be above criticism, the brave lads in the army, the honest British Bobby are all doing a great job, aren't they? NHS is a national treasure, isn't it? Those silly wigs are a symbol of the rule of law rather than indicating how out of touch British law is, aren't they?
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james S
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Re: Abolished public sector final salary pensions?
22-Nov-09 05:50 PM
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James,
Of course there is gross incompetence in civil service - some are competent but generally services are bad and getting worse. Waste and terrible financial focus is at the heart of this though.
FT Atticus today:
"This week's job we could do without comes courtesy of the Training and Development Agency for Schools. As everybody braces themselves for tight budgets, this quango is advertising for 32 "regional delivery leads" (up to £67,000). They must apparently "leaverage the capability of the constituent parts of the RDP and partner agencies to deliver a coherent delivery force".
How thrilling for teachers to learn that more than £2m worth of capability leveraging is being done on their behalf"
Good grief!!!!
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DB64
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