It's usually called gazundering and was tactically and sparingly used in the 91-95 period. It used to entail getting the vendor to progress the sale quite far with their solicitor and incurring a few costs, before threatening to pull out unless a substantial reduction is made. Clever buyers would do this before incurring the expense of a survey. In today's market with so many seriously overpriced properties, expect this practice to really flourish. Land registry figures as 2008 progresses will have interesting tales to tell in terms of reductions in asking prices.

Correct........... A friend has had no option but to reduce the asking price by 10% to complete the sale of their property to a BTL'r 2 weeks ago and still the sale has been put on hold to this day.................... I wonder why?

This will be the practise for the coming year regardless where you live.

Ok thanks for the terminology correction - I have noticed that:

-agents are still keeping properties sold a long time ago in their windows

-the number of properties for sale is increasing

-developments are advertised as sold (but I imagine a developer's pal putting a £2k deposit would secure that appearance of sales/price strength)

-price reductions are not advertised as such and some agents go to extreme lengths to avoid admitting to price reductions on their websites (e.g. remove a property from their own website as sold, but still advertise the same properties on websites like Findaproperty.com - with links that appear to go to thier own website but go to duplication website pages instead - still advertising the property but with lowered prices!)

-I have seen some properties advertised as 'unexpectedly re-available'

It seems to me that the honest buyer should instead point out to the seller what can be afforded - and the negotiation should decide whether a sale is agreeable or not. The seller can choose to sit it out if he believes he can get more.

Equally the buyer should 'withdraw' any rejected offer if negotiation fails - as leaving an offer on the table only encourages the seller into believing the market is stronger than it is.

Anyway - all this is academic - the next month will show sellers how weak a position they are in - although fools that hold out and not reach a deal - will get a shock in the Summer - this is a market now doomed to fall for several years in absolute terms. Holding out for last Spring's price is a Alice-in Wonderland strategy.

Hi Ian,

I've also noticed "sales incentives" advertised on flats recently - huge external banner outside the development. These are, white goods, carpets, cash back etc which allow the developer to keep his selling price up and con the punter into thinking he's getting something for nothing.

Tough times ahead selling property they'll need every trick in the book because their costs will be going up too.

deals are also falling apart because lenders are withdrawing mortgage offers at the last moment.

This is something that the BOE can work on to stabilise prices!

"so how come statistics show house prices are stable, when anyone looking closely knows house prices are soft, mortgages are difficult to obtain, and prices achieved must be at least 5% down from last Summer?" because house prices arent falling are they? you are only reporting on what you want to believe.

No you're right Peter, and the ice caps aren't reducing fast, Gordon Brown's the best thing that ever happened to Britian and Britian and the US should invade Iran now, (it worked so well last time when we invaded Iraq).
Some idiot suggested that the UK/US property boom was a distraction from their governemnts' activities to control the world's oil. What a silly suggestion.

Peter for Gordon's No2.... Pooooooh!!!

prices arent down 5% as ian stated they are up. mortgages are not difficult to obtain either. you just keep your fingers crossed for house price falls cos they wont happen. so many people in a time warp it is untrue. did you know milk is no longer 10p a pint, cigarettes cost more than 50p a packet. get over it guys. you've got to move on continue to rent or choose to buy. but to honestly believe house prices have fallen when they are just 1% below their peak of october last year is a serious problem for you. a great time to buy property.

Peter

I am sure that you do not mean to be offensive, but your beliefs/assertions are not substantiated by any evidence.

Possibly my initial reading of the Rightmove release was not exactly accurate - it is not saying prices are 10% down on the year. But is does clearly indicate a buyers market.

Maybe you live in one of the so called pockets where prices are rising? In my experience it is hellishly difficult to establish reliably where prices are going right now - simply because for the most part houses are not exactly the same in all aspects. I am not an estate agent, but I have been watching prices closely - not least because if prices do begin to harden, I want back in.

Right now, all the evidence I get suggests it is INCREASINGLY a buyers market, prices have already eased/fallen from peaks, supply is increasing and demand (effective demand backed by the ability to buy) looks to be way down on last year, the number of price reductions is increasing. In addition, one talks to people at or near the coalface - all tend to indicate the same - except estate agents, who always seem hugely optimistic when speaking to buyers.

Are you an estate agent? If not, where is your evidence?

ian. there is lots of evidence that prices are stable. check any of the house price reports halifax nationwide rightmove. there really is no point in my referencing them here. all of them show yoy increases. i suggest you read through what happened in 2005 and see the similarities there. any of the latest house price reports are my evidence. what plenty of people here keep on talking about is simply hearsay "my mate said" "no-one can get a mortgage" "prices are falling" there is no evidence for any of that and that is the problem. the main issue is that people who dont currently own a property really really really want house prices to fall. but they wont. i keep telling everyone this but the fact is we will go through this year and next and property will be even higher. you might kindly give us all some evidence that house prices are falling rather than referencing your coffee shop eavesdrop. for heavens sake.

Peter -

Can I have some of the stuff you've been smoking

Peter - in short - No.

Your response seems to claim a better/superior knowledge - I have given some indication as to where my research leads - research that actually began out of an academic interest some 20 years ago - why do house prices forvere rise and why do the laws of economics (i.e. supply and demand) not appear to apply?

Over the years I have done a lot of research - both mining data and looking at statistics etc. I have an opinion - that house prices have faltered, fallen slightly already, and are probably (I would say a very high probably) going down by at least 10% this year (from the peak that is) and maybe something similar next year.

I started this thread with anecdotal evidence - OK that evidence is just that - anecdotal - but it is consistent with all my other findings.

Now Peter - have you done any research at all? or are you just trying to piggy back on the work of others?you imply superiority of understanding - a tiredness of people with differing views to your own. But you give nothing more - nothing of any use - except your own opinion.

What is your position? I have evidenced mine already - and NO I am not trying to talk a position, indeed my own view is that these threads have little/no impact at all on the markets. What I am here for is to seek lead indicators and the truth - so I can adjust my own position accordingly.

You sound to much like an estate agent to me - good luck mate - from where I see - estate agents are having a real tough time - and, to be honest, I have little simpathy for them also.

ok. so explain to me why, when so many people were saying that house prices were going to fall substantially in 2005 that the didn't. what does your analysis which you have done over the last 20 years say about why this was then. in 2005 they would have 'faltered' as you put it as there were some many months of negative growth it but why didnt they plummet? why didnt the 10% btl ownership of UK households say hey lets jump ship and sell our properties and not rent them out anymore? why didnt they then? why will they now then? explain that with your analysis. and also if you have any real 'evidence' it would be good.

2005 - no comment as I was not particularly taking note at that time.

Since then a lot has changed Peter - I suggest you catch up by doing your own research.

What a pointless article...can I suggest you get a job or find a hobby rather than writing stories of when you met an old friend and of drunken hearsay in the pub. "Apparently this is common practice" where did this come from? Yet another old friend or was this another pub conversation you were eaves dropping on?

Dear oh dear, you are as interesting (not) as littleman rocky and his cronies.

Kiki, dont be bitter just coz you backed a 3 legged horse (property) ;-)

Oh Kiki love- Ian has, as per usual, posted a very interesting and well reasoned thread and your bitterness and gross self-interest is plain for all to see. Go away, make yourself a nice cup of tea and have a lie-down (you'll need to after reading the latest Nationwide house price statistics!)

kiki. they are all keeping their fingers crossed in the hope that property prices will crash but they wont. what a great time to buy.

Peter H,

Youre SO on a wind up! You cant kid a kidder... I can sense in posts when people are a) Genuinely bitter about there property nightmare (Kiki et al) and b) Those just trying to wind up Property Bears.. I know your the latter you little tinker... you have had a few bites so well done.

What a great time to buy ;-) Genius!!

I said be nice to Peter. Now I must add, be nice to KIKI too. There's a love!!!

Peter, I'm not going to steal Rocky's thunder but I can honestly say that as your arguments got more ludicrous with each post, something in me screamed wind-up. Very clever indeed on your part and i admit that i fell hook, line and sinker!

KiKi

In some ways, you and Peter are right, a few anecdotes do not make for a solidly reasoned determination that there is currently, or will be, a House Price CRASH - on their own.

Those last three words are very important. I believe the best economic evaluation can be read at
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/pdf/abn...
has anyone seen better?

cut and paste that into your url and have a good read.

For you, and others like Peter who cannot be bothered to do their own tiresome and detailed research:
-years ago I bought a three bed detached house, did it up and sold it within 7 years at three times the price I bought it. Having studied economics I found that achievement stunning and decided to start taking a look at the underlying economics. I dug out the number of houses and the number of family units since records began. Both graph lines inclined upwards - but most interestingly they were converging rapidly with the number of houses catching up quickly. My graph suggested a cross over (from recollection) in c. 1985!

But then that graph did not take account of second idle homes, changes in lifestyles where divorces rose and people chose to live alone - these and the aging of the population were new factors - both giving rise to new forms of 'demand'? In addition wealthy foreigners like London and their millions have bought out many better properties - new demand and also bringing in new money - often at the top end.

So - there is really no house shortage crisis - except there will always be a housing shortage as compered to what we might dream for.

Factoring in all these changes in preferences is hugely difficult - but in summary, as long as prices went up, effective demand would be there to buy - because we had entered a bubble.

A good, elder friend, recalled recently his father - a bank manager telling him - that the price one should pay for a house should be equal to one's salary - a factor of once salary!!!!

I have watched, and like everyone else, gambled in this bubble. But I became aware that all my assets were in one basket - which is poor 'portfolio management' by any investor standards.

So I look for evidence - Peter has none - no research, no facts - just a personal noose of debt and an uncomfortable and hugely illiquid investment plan.

Simply
-to anyone wishing to buy - wait
-to anyone overburdened with debt, sell
-others, your choice, your money, your loss
as for anecdotals, they also say prices are in for a steeper fall

Halifax shows the following 3 regional Q1 2008 report summaries -
"House prices fell by 5.0% in the West Midlands in Q1 2008. The annual rate of house price inflation is -3.7%, below the UK average of 1.1%. " And then we have "House prices increased by 1.6% in Greater London in Q1 2008." And lastly "House prices remained flat in the South East during the first quarter of 2008, with a 0.0% change. That compares with a fall of 1.0% for the UK."...So we have a different picture in each region and definitely no Uk wide drop as some are stating.

Or these rightmove regional summaries
North
Monthly Change -1.1%
Annual Change -0.4%

North West
Monthly Change 1.2%
Annual Change -2.5%

East Anglia
Monthly Change -1.5%
Annual Change -0.4%

Yorkshire & Humberside
Monthly Change 1.2%
Annual Change -2.3%

East Midlands
Monthly Change -1.5%
Annual Change -0.7%

West Midlands
Monthly Change -0.5%
Annual Change 2.2%

Wales
Monthly Change -1.4%
Annual Change -2.2%

South East
Monthly Change 4.2%
Annual Change 6.0%

Greater London
Monthly Change 0.2%
Annual Change 5.0%

South West
Monthly Change 1.0%
Annual Change 2.4%

Basically I see no widespead proof of a price slip UK WIDE